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disc stability

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Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:16 am    Post subject: disc stability Reply with quote

I couldn't find the old post about spin vs speed and I have been thinking about it a lot lately so here is my summary of newly minted thoughts.

I think understable flight has more speed than spin. here's why: If you throw a driver into a headwind them it turns over. the wind basically creates artificial amounts of speed while maintaining your normal spin. tailwinds are the opposite. it it harder to turn over a disc with a tailwind because the wind atrificially lowers the relative speed of the disc.

Forehand throws have a higher spin to speed ratio and this is why most forehand plas favor massively overstable discs: max, teerex, excal....
A dude built a rig for testing this and posted his results on the PDGA board. very interesting.

in an old post I said that when i wanted to throw a long anny with a buzz I made sure to spin it a lot. What I didn't really factor in was that I was already throwing an anny release and the spin helped it hold that line, not turn it over. spin helps hold whatever line you throw, maybe? If I throw a buzz dead it will flip and turn, but not as predictable as an anny throw with spin. This is one big thing that threw me off.

The monarch removes weight from the rim and adds it to the flight plate therefor there is less mass spinning relative the the mass moving forward making it less stable. so less spin vs speed= understable. an excal has a fat blunt rim way out on the end so more weight is outside, the flight plates are relatively thin more mass spinning vs speed = overstable.

As far as distance and accuracy most pros favor stable and hyzer lines because they are more predictable. it is harder to predict the turn over --->fade cycle than the fade ->fade-> fade-> cycle.

why is it easier to throw long stright to hyzer shots than it is to throw long hyzer shots?

number one: time aloft- I think it is because we measure straight line distance but a hyzer shot has to travel 400 to land at 350. a flip shot takes a tighter line and therefor all of the air distance is translated into straight line distance better.
number two: combined fade. a hyzer shot is already setting a disc up to fade. you are adding fade to fade. so the disc if basically going to fade earlier than it might on a different line.
number three: for me the body motion to throw anny is easier to shift my weight into and get the whole body into, a hyzer shot is more arm and I lose some power there..

when is the hyzer longer?
1- when a tree block the anny line
2- when the wind is right to left
3- when the wind is strong headwind that would work your wraith like a paper plate.

wow that was really rambling.
Look at the size of that pill, I can't swallow that.
Good news everybody! it's a suppository.
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 621

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spin only exists to stabilize the disc in flight. Think of gyroscopics. A spinning top will stand up straight as it spins in a uniform manner. All of the force on the horizontal plane is directing outward, exactly perpendicular to the vertical axis. This means that all of the forces are acting equally in a horizontal fashion, and all of the downward force is exactly even with the vertical axis. The faster the top spins, the more resistant it is to tipping over sideways. As the top slows, air resistance and unevenness in the spin begin to act out of balance and the top begins tipping over. The forces are no longer exactly equal to each other in the horizontal plane.

The more spin there is on a disc, the more resistant it is to tipping over. It works out that the balances of air resistance and lift dictate that fade is the "preferred" direction for the disc to tip. (Try this with a top, I think you'll notice that the direction of the spin dictates the direction it starts to tip over)

Lance is right, speed increases understability. And it is all about relative speed. Speed seems to increase understablility while spin increases predictability. That is why Drew can put his Buzz in a straight line every time. He puts a ton of spin on it and it resists fading all the way to the ground.

Speed is the key to understablity and turn, but spin is the key to being fade-proof.
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