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distance thread
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:21 pm    Post subject: distance thread Reply with quote

I have been throwing a bit at tydeman field lately. Mindy and I always parctice open field distance there because it is by our house. the other day I ran into troy kase there too.

so FYI- corner to corner at tydeman is right at 400'. allow 5- 10 feet for runup and if you hit the far fence you are looking at 400. home plat is roughly 200 from the corners. Optimist park is abou the same but I rarely throw there as the fences aren't as high.

I have had a few throws in the 400' range when the wind is right and the stars exert the right pull. I have a somewhat beat star wraith that I can throw slightly hyzer, flip it and it really goes, small fade at the end, really a classic straight golf line throw.

Where do you practice distance throws? How far, what disc, what technique, and how are you measuring?
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mook



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 798

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My backyard is the Taysom Rotary Park on the greenbelt so I throw back there. The width of the park is the same, about 400 feet so if I throw any longer than that I am hitting the Animal Hospital or the dentist. I once got a brand new wraith and turned it over awfully bad on its first throw. We think its in the Portneuf River, but can neither confirm nor deny it.
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ScottW



Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 148
Location: Spokane Valley, WA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here in Missoula we have a huge field on the south end of campus by the golf course. It is used by many intramural sports teams as well as rugby and lacrosse and the far south end of it turns into the UM golf course, and on the west side are the fenced off areas for the track and soccer fields - it's huge. In the area that is open for "public" use it is probably 450-500 feet wide (east to west) and 800-1000ft long. I prefer to throw on the rugby field which from goal post to goal post is said to be 326 and beyond that the intramural soccer fields run in the opposite direction with 3-4 goal post spaced out from there. I will use the rugby field as my starting point knowing that it's 326 to the goal post then pace it off from there. I threw on Friday with Carrie and my long throw (into a minimal headwind) was 35 paces past the goal post. I figure each of my steps to be about 3 feet, so I figured my long throw was in the 430ft. range - huge for me. That throw was with my 175g STAR Destroyer and I had a 169 STAR TeeRex and an unknown weight Ch. Beast fall a little bit shorter than that. I typically get my best D with my Destroyers (169 and 175), TeeRexs (169 and 175) and my Ch. Wraith. My STAR SL, Pro Starfire, and STAR Wraith are way too flippy to throw straight with for the most part. I have been experimenting with rolling those 3 because they are so understable now, they are great anhyzer discs. 430 sounds like a ton for me knowing how I used to throw but I have been practicing throwing quite a bit recently because Blue Mountain is still a snowy, icy, mud bowl - plus I have been working out a lot lately with a personal trainer through my exercise physiology class at school and that has helped a ton with my distance. I would say my average long drives are in the 400 ft. range with my longest in the 420-430ft. range, but that is only when I am firing on all cylinders and my timing and mechanics and everything are just flowing perfectly. I hope when I am done with my lifting program at the end of the semester to be able to routinely throw 450ft Shocked or more.
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mook



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 798

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was 3 years old, the place that I like to practice my distance drives was just a field of yellow weeds. Well, maybe they were tannish yellow in color about 2 1/4th to 3.556 feet high. Of course, at this time I had not heard nor seen disc golf so it was used mostly as a roadside litter drop off for the city. Mostly those who didn't want their wives to know they were drinking, so the beer cans would fly. Ahh..memories! The wind blew on average 12 mph at this spot which makes it ideal for throwing against and with the wind. Again, still haven't played disc golf yet, but you can see how this area of weeds by the river was being groomed as the perfect area to practice my disc golf drives. In 1981, a dog ran through that weed field......uh huh. In 1982, birds chirped along the river as my favorite driving area was still a field of weeds. I was potty trained at this point. On the other side of the highway from my weed field, a.k.a disc driving area, was another weed field next to the railyard. The weeds on the side of the highway were the same heighth as my disc driving area. Come to think of it, it still is a field of weeds. Not as high though, El Nino's effect on the land hurt the soil and crop has never been the same. Today, the weeds are maybe 1.5 feet in heighth. Journey was a rather popular band during this era. So again, you can see this humble plot of weeds being groomed into the "perfect" distance driviing area. Skipping ahead to the current Millenna. The city proposed a greenbelt and dubbed this weedy area as the mecca for the greenbelt. So, they planted Kentucky bluegrass. It really doesn't look blue, it still looks green to me. Well, you know those Kentuckians, they are just happy if they know which way is up. There was a vast debate over which would make a better disc driving area, knowing full well that they had no idea what disc golf was or that anyone would every play it here (they still don't). They decided to go with sod, 3 inch length. The width of the park is roughly 389.3459097580 feet while the length is 405 feet even. There is a small pavilion in the middle of the park next to a manmade hill. To date, I have thrown 1287 drives from my backyard to the park and 1286 drives from the park to my backyard. 12987 putts have graced the basket which lies on the "border" between my yard and the park. A stray dog once ran through the park and ate dogfood off of my back porch when the snow was 1 foot 8 inches deep. My next door neighbor can't keep his garbage in his own yard and I have a hole in the back of my house that birds like to nest in. Their eggs are great for breakfast. To sum up, I still haven't found that Wraith I threw in the river, but I got a new one from my mommy (who can beat up Lance's mommy) on my 29th birthday. The end.
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:36 am    Post subject: distance thread Reply with quote

I can't seem to get a destroyer to do what I want. I can never throw a predictable shot. I can turn it over, or get a big hyzer, or get a decent line, once in a while; just not when I want one. It is really sensitive. even the biggest throws are not what I can regularly do with a mid weight wraith. It just has no glide and drops from the sky.
sometimes my best shots are errant ones that go at least 450' and hit cars, 90 degrees from where I am aiming.

I seem to be getting into less stable discs with more glide and having some success in consistent 350' shots.

I am getting 290 out of a flx buzzz. I'm pretty happy with that given that I can get that on most lines and that puts a lot of holes in range.

It would be nice to see some of the big guns in the area come out and throw, now that i know a little more about what I am looking at. I'd love to see someone huck it out of the park.

Also, it is nice to see someone else rambling pointlessly for a change.
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tkase



Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:56 pm    Post subject: Technique Reply with quote

Lance,

Glad to see this post. After I ran into you, I started thinking a whole lot more about technique and getting my legs into the throw. When I played with Brandon the week before, he mentioned that I looked more comfortable throwing forehand than backhand. That got me thinking and then I ran into Lance and he mentioned something about my throw that I hope to get help with.

I tend to hesitate after my reachbackand then end up draging my left foot through the throw rather than pushing off of it. I really appreciate Lance for pointing this out. I couldn't put my finger on why I only occassionaly got a good load on the disc.

Anyway, how far do you all reach back? Do you decrease your reachback to get better timing? At what point do you start to pull through?

Thanks,
Troy
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:32 pm    Post subject: backhand Reply with quote

I can still remeber how I learned because it was only last spring. until then I was a pretty exclusive forehander. I learned to throw from a standing position to reduce the number of things that could go wrong. I would just plant my feet, trun and reach way back---untorque the torso and the arm would follow. when you feel the arm loaded up, snap it straight and bang!

Add one step, same story

add a run up.

just try loading your torso first??? I'm not really good enough to offer advice, but that doesn't stop me.


I tend to reach pretty far back for more distance. there is some contrary evidence, but it works for me. It helps me stay on line and height.
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tkase



Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:11 pm    Post subject: Any other Input? Reply with quote

Lance,

Thanks for the advice. I spent some time on Friday throwing without a run-up. What is frustrating is that I was throwing just as well. Anyway, I will probably do this some more.

Is there some more advice out there? It seems that I am probably not using legs and torso enough if I cannot break 300' very often.
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:37 pm    Post subject: standing distance Reply with quote

In terms of a run up adding much distance: I don't think it does much for power. At least for me it mainly establishes a rhythm, gives me a chance to go through a routine and gets my last step set up. It is mainly mental. for a long time I could throw further backhand with no run up because me technique was much cleaner because so much less was going on. You can still shift significant weight and impart torso torque without running up.

It also helped me to have Kerry buying so many discs. He has about every driver ever made and I would always steal some to try out new discs.
ultimately i found I throw discs in the 169 range best and have good luck with the wraith and buzzz. heavy discs fall out of the sky for me, lighter ones are a little tricky to be accurate with. (although they can really bomb if the stars align) Throwing a ton of shots is also teaching me about the wind and how it changes the game with even a slight breeze. I like lef tto right wind in the 10 MPH rnage and hate right to left. I can deal fine with tail and head winds.

My forehand comes and goes but right now I am throwing a newer star 175 KC wraith pretty well. the more stable and heavy the better for my forehand, which is not a very clean shot for me and kind of tweaks my back if over done.

Just keep throwing. I take out all of my drviers and mids and just empty the bag repeatedly across the baseball fields. nothing makes you a better thrower than throwing. I suppose there is some danger in developing bad habits, but I don't know if that is a big deal at this stage in the game for me. I am still picking up distance every month so my habits must not be the limiting factor yet.

Just count your discs at the beginning and end of each session and watch out for those pesky softball players that think they own the fields.
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tkase



Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Disc Golf exercises Reply with quote

What about strengthening exercises? What do people out there do? I asked James on Saturday if he does core strengthening for track and he said he does. It seems like core strength is at least as important as arm strength. I have never had good core strength and am a bit doughy in the middle. What do people out there do as exercises for throwing discs?

I am with you on the lighter weight discs. I definitely get more distance out of them.

TK
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Wazowski08



Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 621

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am from a different school of thought on this whole distance thing than most. I have accepted the fact that 400' is about my max, but 300' - 325' is my accurate max. My grandpa taught me an interesting principle for golf. If I can hit a five iron 150 yards accurately, then I should be able to birdie a 450 yard par 5. Out driving your opponents is not nearly as important as outplaying them. Now, most of you have played with me and know that I am not the one knocking down 60 foot putts at will. But rather than focusing on getting closer to the pin, I really work on getting into the chains from wherever I end up. I go out and pure power crush once or twice a month to improve my driving accuracy, but I work on putting at least three or four times a week.

So long story short, yeah, driving 450' and 500' is fun, but you drive for show, and you putt for dough.

Austin
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Wazowski08



Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 621

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allow me to elaborate on my golf analogy a bit. Hitting 150 three times in a row would put you at 450, and on the green putting for 4. Sorry for the vague analogy.

Austin
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ScottW



Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 148
Location: Spokane Valley, WA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:44 am    Post subject: Core Stability Reply with quote

Core stability is key to EVERYTHING, PERIOD Exclamation In being in the athletic training program at the University of Montana I work with athletes everyday, including rehabilitation progressions. Everybody who comes in with an injury gets set up on a core strengthening program. Sprained ankle, they will get applicable ankle functional exercises and core work. Torn ACL, well, there's a good chance that their lack of core strength may have lead to the inability to contol the body's mechanics, they get core work. Most athletes here who are not injured have some sort of core strengthening program that they work on as well. The physical therapy clinic that I used to work at had a big focus on core work as well. If your goal is to sit on your @$$ all day and watch TV than core stability won't be much of a worry, it's hugely beneficial for disc golf. I know I throw much better when I have been good about doing core work. Core work is at least as important as armstrength in throwing sports, if not more important. A solid core will also help with lower extremity movement. Don't forget about lower extremity strength too. About 50 % of overhead throwing athlete's power comes from lower extremity strength and I truely believe that disc golf would be considered an "overhead" sport even though not all throws are actually done overhead. I am currently on a weight lifting plan that is directed toward total body strengthening specific to making me a stronger thrower. All of the finness work us up to me to be done at an open field (ie upshots and putting). My recommendation: strengthen muscles of the arm and rotator cuff (wrist to shoulder, they all work during the throw), scapular stability and postural muscles, core stability exercises, and lower extremity exercises. These will all help with timing and power when throwing. The Throwers Ten Program is a good place to start for throwing specific muscles, here's a link


http://www.asmi.org/SportsMed/media/thrower10.swf

Anything you do will probably be beneficial, I even find cardio helps my game. Play around with different stuff but remember to work opposing muscle groups (i.e. biceps and triceps) you don't want to develop a muscle imbalance because you think one muscle is more important than another. I'll give you more of my opinion if you want it or if you have any other questions.
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:54 am    Post subject: more distance Reply with quote

I have to agree that it is all about the putt...but this being the distance thread.....

Core is important for sure. although I didn't have the intestinal fortitude to wade through all of Scott's post I have to agree with what I read that neglecting opposing muscles is bad and core is good. I don't specifically cross train or lift or anything but I do:
Swim, play soccer, XC ski, downhill ski, snowboard, backpack, climb, bike, and chop a ton of wood every year. Plus building log furniture is a really good core workout.
I think being generally fit is enough for me without extra core work, though I wish I did more, I just don't feel like it today...or tommorrow....

the PDGA DISCussion board has a lot of this talk. some of the current thought has a lot to do with tendon snap and that pop at the end being most important, rather than the length of the draw or exact position of the feet. Some of it is probably totally wrong, but interesting. Some guys claim to do an equal number of throws left handed to prevent injury...Liars.
Also DISCRAFT is producing some decent clinic videos with some of their pros that are on youtube.
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ScottW



Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 148
Location: Spokane Valley, WA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:16 pm    Post subject: Lefty Reply with quote

I have been practicing throwing lefthanded since last year but not to prevent injury on the right side, if that is what you were alluding to Lance. I am not sure I have every heard that theory before. There are a number of interesting, and not-scientifically-supported, theories out there. More research needs to be done for sure. On the GCF forum in Missoula one member did a post about how grunting during your throw WILL add 25% more distance to your throw. He made this claim after watching a TV show that researched the topic on a single person, not overwhelming evidence there - I think it could be helpful but for the most part I think it's a bunch of crap. Anyway, my lefty backhand has been maxing out at about 315ft. Shocked with my average probably in the range of 275ft.
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