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Rules thread
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:17 pm    Post subject: Rules thread Reply with quote

So I have been bothered ever since the TVC in boise. An open player lands next to a fence, which is not OB, not casual, and undeclared by the TD. he takes his stance and decides if the throws his approach backhand he could hit his hand on barbed wire and hurt himself. the fence is naybe 40" tall and has a strand of barb at the top.

He declares his lie is dangerous and wants to take relief, WITH NO PENALTY backwards a few steps.

I can't find this in the rulebook anywhere. The TD Steve later backed him up. I disagree for two reasons.

1- an overhand or flick would have been perfetly safe, if less accurate for him.

2- the only relief rule I see is unplayable lie, which carries a penalty.

Anybody.........I didn't read the competition manual yet, but I read all applicable parts of the rule book, I think.
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and secondly.... My disc comes to rest in a brach completely overhanging the water, which is clearly OB. No 2m rule, but it is definitiely over the water. I can reach the disc easily (not that it matters).

How do I proceed?
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staatsy



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 348
Location: Poky

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(1) I agree - since the fence was not declared by the TD as a casual obstacle prior to the round, what the player did was declare his lie unplayable, which should have resulted in a penalty stroke.

(2) 803.08 Disc Above The Playing Surface
A. If a disc comes to rest above the
playing surface in a tree or other obstacle
on the course, its lie shall be marked on
the playing surface directly below it. If
the point directly below the disc above
the playing surface is an out-of-bounds
area, the disc shall be declared out-ofbounds
and marked and penalized in
accordance with 803.09. If the playing
surface directly below the disc is inside a
tree or other solid obstacle, the lie shall
be marked on the line of play immediately
behind the tree or other solid obstacle.

So, one penalty throw and you can either throw from your last lie or perpendicular 1 meter from where your disc went OB.


That's how I read the rules, at least.

Eric
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mooch



Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

with your second post It has to do with what I did and I was wrong I mistakly thought it would be inbounds I make mistakes to thats why we play with others during rounds it is very embarassing cause of the fact that I should know the rules better than that i just got caught up in the moment.

from what I undedstand with your first post in would be a unplayable/unsafe lie and therefor they would take a penatly stroke with that but i will have to look it up to make sure
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mook



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 798

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he wants to declare it as an unsafe or unplayable lie he can take relief within the line of play but it will cost him a stroke. He is the one who threw it there, why should he get relief without a penalty?!? So, Eric, you are right, but I think you copy and pasted the wrong rule. Its this one.


03.06 Unplayable Lie

A. A player may declare his or her lie to be an unplayable lie. The player is the sole judge as to whether the lie is unplayable. The unplayable lie may be relocated to a new lie that is: (1) No closer to the hole, on the line of play and within five meters of the unplayable lie; or (2) The previous lie as evidenced by the marker disc or, if the marker disc has been moved, from an approximate lie as agreed to by the majority of the group or an official. The original throw plus one penalty throw are counted in the player's score.


And Mooch.....DUDE!....cheeting is not a good way to catch up to my rating.
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staatsy



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 348
Location: Poky

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, mook. I was quoting the disc above playing surface rule for Lance's second post. I should've copy/pasted the rule you did for my answer to his first post.

I really need to read and re-read the rules prior to upcoming tourneys.

Eric
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just throwing that second one out there for mooch's viewing pleasure. It didn't end up mattering.


Agree with all responses so far. So where is Steve Lloyd coming from? anyone?
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mook



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 798

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know those I.F. guys...
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Wazowski08



Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 621

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, the hilarious part of this whole story about the unplayable lie is the screaming match that ensued. There were four or five guys yelling at each other about this stupid rule. In the end, the guy with the "unplayable lie" ended up throwing without relief and landed a pretty good shot to take the easy three, anyway. So everyone spent five minutes yelling about a rule that no one ended up using.
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SO I have a disc sitting ON the 10m line, exactly half way in half way out. Can I jump putt?

Of course it was a drive that landed on the line from 600'- if that matters.
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staatsy



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 348
Location: Poky

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiya79 wrote:
SO I have a disc sitting ON the 10m line, exactly half way in half way out. Can I jump putt?

Of course it was a drive that landed on the line from 600'- if that matters.


Yes, you can jump putt.

803.03 Marking the Lie
A. After each throw, the thrown disc
must be left where it came to rest until
the lie is established by the placing of a
marker. This can be done by placing a
mini marker disc on the playing surface
between the hole and the disc, directly
in line with the hole, on the line of play,
touching the thrown disc. A player may
instead choose, without touching or
repositioning the thrown disc, to use the
thrown disc as the marker.
The marker
may not be moved until the throw is
released. A marker inadvertently moved
prior to the throw shall be returned to its
correct location.

So, if you leave your thrown disc and don't place a marker, the thrown disc is considered the "marker."

Now:

803.04 C
Any throw from within 10 meters or
less, as measured from the rear of the
marker disc to the base of the hole
, is
considered a putt. A follow-through after
a putt that causes the thrower to make
any supporting point contact closer to
the hole than the rear edge of the marker
disc constitutes a falling putt and is
considered a stance violation . The player
must demonstrate full control of balance
before advancing toward the hole.

Since you didn't pick up your 600 foot drive and the center of the disc is on the 10m line, the back of the disc is more than 10m from the basket. So, you can jump putt.


But what if your disc is stuck in a tree, less that 2m above the playing surface, half over OB water and half in/out of the 10 m circle?


Eric
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I mark my lie in the circle because I want to be 8" closer. then I realize I am an awesome jump putter and rarely hurt my back doing so. Can I change my mind?
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I throw hole 6 at Lava RHBH route (over towards the neighbor's pond) and on the fade back in bounds it hits the top rail of the fence and gets rejected. where do I mark my lie?
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm playing ross. Hole 9- new position is the placement. I throw an effortless forehand that fades around the corner perfectly. We hear the chains ring loudly, clearly a direct hit. After everyone else throws (I was leading the card) and shanks their drives in multiple directions. we finally approach the basket. It takes someone several throws just to get out of the bushes so some time has passed. Several kids are playing back in the corner. one is holding my disc and drops it and runs. Kerry gives chase but the 10 year old quickly exhausts him....there is no one to question about the disc.

what is the call?
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cwolfe
Local Pro


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm playing ross. Hole 9- new position is the placement. I throw an effortless forehand that fades around the corner perfectly. We hear the chains ring loudly, clearly a direct hit. After everyone else throws (I was leading the card) and shanks their drives in multiple directions. we finally approach the basket. It takes someone several throws just to get out of the bushes so some time has passed. Several kids are playing back in the corner. one is holding my disc and drops it and runs. Kerry gives chase but the 10 year old quickly exhausts him....there is no one to question about the disc.


803.07 Interference
A. A thrown disc that hits another player,
spectator, or animal shall be played where
it comes to rest. A thrown disc that is
intentionally deflected or was caught and
moved shall be marked as close as possible
to the point of contact, as determined
by a majority of the group or an official.
Alternatively, for intentional interference
only, the thrower has the option of taking
a re-throw. Players shall not stand or leave
their equipment where interference with
the flight or path of a disc could easily
occur. The away player may require other
players to mark their lies or move their
equipment before making a throw if the
player believes that either could interfere
with his or her throw.
B. If a disc at rest on the playing surface
or supported by the target is moved, the
disc shall be replaced as close as possible
to its original location, as determined by
a majority of the group or an official.
If
a marker disc is moved, the marker disc
shall be replaced as close as possible to
its original location, as determined by a
majority of the group or an official. (If
the two meter penalty is in effect, see also
803.08 C and D for movement of a disc
above the playing surface.)
C. Any player who consciously alters the
course of a thrown disc, or consciously
moves or obscures another player?s
thrown disc at rest or a marker disc, other
than by the action of a competitively
thrown disc or in the process of
identification, shall receive two penalty
throws, without a warning, if observed by
any two players or an official.

My interpretation in regards to this specific incident would be that the group could either come to a consensus that the disc was in the basket or right by the basket. Where there was never a visual of the disc being in the target if I were in your group I would not give you the ace. But that really sucks. A really mean group could assume you rolled a mile away and put your disc there.
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