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Team Over The Top Open
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pole vaulter



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 461

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why don't you guys just decide who the sandbaggers are when the final results are posted. if someone could place top five in the division above the one they entered in, to me they are a sandbagger. sorry if that offends people, but censorship and respect for the forum prevents me from saying what i think you (sandabaggers) really are...

sincerely,

James
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:08 pm    Post subject: too true Reply with quote

larger tournaments do bring out better players in lower divisions. I mainly played intermediate at eagle island because I have only played the course 3 times, 2 were tournament rounds. Honestly i should have played advanced because they shortened the course for intermediates and I think that hurt me. I'd rather throw a driver 360'+ those 320' holes kill me. not a buzz, not a driver.

I'm just glad I can sit back and talk trash: because I won't have to back it up @ Walcott.

good luck to everyone. I hope those Boise guys don't even see it coming...BAM...pocatello sweep at their own tourney.
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Wazowski08



Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 621

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with James with one amendment. You are sandbagging if you consistently score well enough to be top five in the division above you. Freakishly awesome weekends will happen, and sometimes you'll blow the field away. Last year, I played Advanced at the Mink Creek Monthly and blew Lance away (A little offense intended, but not a lot, Lance). However, I jumped up to Open the next Monthly at Blackfoot and not only did the open guys destroy me by like 12 strokes, but Lance would have comfortably beaten me in Advanced with his rounds.

So, long story shortened, if you have an awesome tourney, you don't automatically have to jump up. If you're consistently in the top five in your division, you may want to consider bumping up.

Austin
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cwolfe
Local Pro


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For awhile there I was reminded of the old trash talking days, which I will state were way out of hand. This is my perception. It seems that whoever wins a tournament in there division is considered a sandbagger by somebody. Somebody has to win though, so I believe in the reward structure playing itself out.

If someone takes first in intermediate and wins a bag or something, but would have taken fourth in advanced and still got a bag they would hopefully have incentive to move up a division because they would have had a chance at maybe a basket.

When you win advanced and get sick of winning prizes that you already have a million of you will decide to take the cash and go up to pro.

If Drew and Logan are sandbaggers, I would rather them win in intermediate then a different sandbagger. Because remember, whoever wins there division is a "sandbagger."

This is why tournaments should really focus on having good sponsorship and padding the PRO Purse (yes their is a little bias there). This gives advanced players incentive to move up. This trickles down.

I really don't think anyone registered for Walcott is a bagger. If you wanted to get technical and look at ratings you would see that some people are playing above their division level.

If you are struggling with whether you should move up or not, I would say that you should play a tournament and if you would have beaten the first place person of the division above you, then you should consider the move. There is nothing wrong with winning your own division.

There you go, more than you wanted I am sure.
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cwolfe
Local Pro


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey,

I just got the email from team over the top and it had a link to a virtual of lake walcott. It has the OB's declared as well as the alternate tee boxes. If you did not get the email, let me know and I will send it to you.

Thanks,
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ScottW



Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 148
Location: Spokane Valley, WA

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caleb,

It's great to see that you signed up for the TOTT Open at Walcott. I hope your reign continues there. That would be a fun one to play but I will be playing the LCO in Spokane - I can't pass up the opportunity to get to play Four Mound Disc Golf Reserve Very Happy Did you renew your PDGA membership Question I hope so because I believe that would make you the highest rated player in the state.

Good luck to everyone from Poky who is making the trip to Walcott. I do hope you all surprise the Boise guys Cool

I made my last trip down to Pocatello last weekend for graduation. I got to sneak in a round at Bengal on Sat. in the wind and must have just missed James. I shot 57 and was pretty pleased considering how windy it was. Will there be any sanctioned tourneys at Bengal this year Question

Good luck to all in Pocatello, perhaps some of you will make the trek up to north Idaho, Spokane, or western Montana for some tournaments sometime. The Zoo Town Open in Missoula is gonna be sick and may still have a few spots left, will be some rediculous competition. Hope to see some of you soon.
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:55 pm    Post subject: agree with Caleb Reply with quote

Any one that wins a division is usually called a bagger. but ratings in Idaho are all screwed up. Until Caleb renews there are basically no "pro" rated players right now in the whole state. there aren't even that many advanced players in the state. we are all a bunch of intermediates posing as good players. so play wherever you want, see what happens, then decide to move up (or down) based on that, not based on message board harrassment.

Austin beat the heck out of me at mink creek last year, then got beat up at another tourney. that kind of defines an amateur. so some guy gets lucky and put together 2 good rounds and wins an int division. automatically moves up? not for sure. No offense Casey, but I don't expect you to move up after winning the walcott monthly. You had some good rounds, no one else did. congrats. and I'm not moving up after winning blackfoot. Calling someone a bagger says a few thing:
1) good job, you played well in your division
2) I really wanted to beat you
3) if that happens a few more times, you're moving on buddy.

I will probably play advanced (despite not being rated anywhere near enough to compete in a legit way) because I want to play with better players and get better. 2 good rounds would prbably put me in contention for a few prizes if I'm lucky.
Kris Zahm from Boise is playing open as a 887 rated player. he wants to get better, and doesn't mind spending the extra entry fee to do it. respect for that.

don't cave to the pressure, unless it is self imposed
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mook



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 798

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...well, I hope the Zoo Town Open gets better, Scott.

Seriously now. I don't believe that Drew and Logan are sandbaggers because I am playing in Advanced and there are guys who can blow me out of the water in that division. Drew and Logan could NEVER beat me at Walcott so Intermediate is defintely their spot.

Real serious now. I honestly don't believe that anyone can be a true sandbagger in the state of Idaho. The division are soooo screwed up. In the Open division, there are 1000 rated guys to Intermediate rated guys. In Advanced, there are legitimate pros to illegitimate Intermediate players. In Intermediate, there are are borderline Advanced players (Drew and Logan) all the way down to Beginners or Recreational players like Drew's brother Mike. Is there any rhyme or reason in this state. Everyone's so confused about which division they should be playing. You watch the scores and see how far apart they are in each divison and it'll prove what I am saying. In an Open division, there should be tight scores, like 7-8 strokes from top to bottom in each round. In Advanced, it should be more like 10-12 in each round. In Intermediate, it should be like 20-23. In Idaho it is more like this.

Open: 15-20
Advanced: 30-35
Intermediate: 50+

What this means is that the median of scores is being swayed so heavily by two things: The top players should be in the next division up and the bottom players should be in one of the next 2 divisions down.

Hope I didn't get too deep.
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kerry



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 224

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about an update? Did anyone make it back alive?
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cwolfe
Local Pro


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick update:

Brandon represented well playing four solid rounds and placing 3rd in the Advanced division.

Drew took the intermediate division and also represented well.

I took third which I am very please with and was my expectation going in. Next time I will need to expect 1st I guess.

Logan also placed in the intermediate division.

I apologize, but I don't remember where Brad M. placed. and Mike Neilson played well for 3 months of disc golf.

I know I am probably leaving something out, but I don't know who or what it si.

Thanks,
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Caleb Wolfe
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cwolfe
Local Pro


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The results are posted for the Team Over the Top Open.

Thanks to Jason for running a great tournament and being so prompt with getting the results posted. He has played in enough tournaments to know what players like and did a fantastic job.

Here is the link to the results.

http://pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=7827&year=2008&includeRatings=1#Open

Later,
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Caleb Wolfe
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fiya79



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 746
Location: Pokytella

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:04 pm    Post subject: well done poky Reply with quote

A rising tide raises all boats. Poactello folks represented well. congrats to all finishers. I think Boise might be in danger of being dethroned as the Idaho disc gold epicenter.

Pocatello- better courses, better players, better bring your A game.
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discgolf101



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello to all. I just wanted to say a quick thanks to everyone who attended the tournament this past weekend, and for the support from PVDGC. Overall, I am really happy with how things went, and appreciate everyone's patience with this first-timer.

- Jason Scrivner
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mook



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 798

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The proof is in the pudding. Here is the sandbagger results (and none of us are sandbaggers)

Mook finished 3rd in Advanced, would have finished 14th in Open
Drew finished 1st in Intermediate, would have finished 9th in Advanced and 15th in Open
Brad finished 5th in Intermediate, would have finished 21st in Advanced
Logan finished 7th in Intermediate, would have finished 22nd in Advanced
Mike, nice 1st PDGA event.
Caleb, finished 3rd in Open, would have finished 1st in Open Women.
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drewpy101



Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SANDBAGGERS!!!!!!
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